Talk:Abdullah Öcalan

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External links[edit]

Can anyone explain to me why we have the last two external links on this article? The websites are of course completley POV, but we link to such sites on some articles. But the presentation of them at the moment looks very POV to me as well. There was no explanation at all, just a warning that the links have some disturbing images. Now it reads "These images are a result of what PKK did.", which also sounds pretty POV and indicates that the links rather belong to Kurdistan Workers Party than to this article. I got reverted with the simple comment "good page.", which is IMHO not a very sufficient explanation, so I'd like to get a more detailed one here. --Conti| 13:39, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)

The links definitely belong to PKK page. Also, in encyclopedia people expect insight on conflict background more than pictures of mutilated bodies. Pavel Vozenilek 21:08, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Freedom Fighter SEROK Apo, without whom life would be impossible, does not stay in İmralı on his own anymore[edit]

In 2009, there were 5 more prisoners chosen to stay in İmralı Island. The 4th reference on the page was published in 2010 but even that is out of date. Here is the link expalining which prisoners were chosen and how.

Be Serok Jiyan Nabe.

Source 19 was the equivalent of illuminati lizard people zionist demon taking over the world conspiracy[edit]

Besides the ridiculous back and forth on this page, I wanted to point out that this source, besides being a personal blog, is conspiracy crazy to the nth degree, so I replaced it with the PKK bio.

The former source is claiming a super convoluted theory involving him being a secret Armenian in collusion with CNN, CIA, The Turkish Secret service, and the freemasons. No joke.

Not a political prisoner[edit]

Saying that he's a political prisoner is NPOV as the term can suggest different things. He is in prison for advocating violence (i.e. leading an armed group responsible for mass unlawfull killings). While one may argue he's also charged with political crimes, that doesn't change the aforementioned unlawfull violence. Therefore "prisoner" should be used as the more neutral term. No international organization or supranational organization like the EU labels him as a political prisoner. Randam (talk) 01:44, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

It fits for him as he is banned from holding a public office for life and engaged heavily in the peace process through his books and messages released from prison. And the peace process ended with an isolation of Öcalan so his messages of peace don't get out anymore. Most of his messages I know of were about peace some others were about his health. The EU court ruled he did not receive a fair trial. And the Kurds won many cases where massacres and crimes blamed on the PKK by Turkey were actually done by Turkey.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 08:18, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Öcalan is seen by many independent sources as a political prisoner.--Hippeus (talk) 11:40, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Hippeus, can you provide me some examples? Randam (talk) 14:06, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
Randam, he's been referred to as a political prisoner by the Turkish govt itself.[1], but also by Italy's Agenzia Nazionale Stampa Associata[2]. Battleofalma (talk) 15:49, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
This seems like cherry picking speeches that fit a certain narrative. Because we all now Turkish government (and others) refer to him as a terrorist, but try and get that on this article. The correct way of addressing the political prisoner issue would be adding stuff like "some believe" or "according to" before those words.Randam (talk) 13:38, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Well, you asked Hippeus for independent sources saying he was a political prisoner, not sources saying he wasn't, so I'm not sure how that's cherry picking.
It doesn't matter that a Turkish govt minister was "off-message" at the time he referred to him as a "political prisoner", because we're not here to correct his mistake. That we have a Turkish govt minister, and a major press agency referring to him as a "political prisoner" as well as somewhat self-evident situation of a founder of a major political party being imprisoned for violent opposition to a government, does feel like enough to define Ocalan's imprisonment as "political". Battleofalma (talk) 16:47, 26 May 2020 (UTC)